Monday, 24 September 2012

It's all gone a bit Chaotic!!!


  

Right I was actually going to ignore the whole hub-bub that has somehow spread like wild fire over the past few weeks concerning Chaos Space Marines in both Warhammer 40,000 and 30,000. Why? Because quite frankly it has been done to death by so many people I thought why bother? I mean I've always struck out on my own path any way, so why change that now? Well for a few good reasons actually:

  1. How many people have asked over the last God knows how many years for the Horus Heresy to be brought to life in miniatures form? It's lots by the way, so it's big!
  2. Chaos Space Marines have been in desperate need of updating for far too long.  I know many heretics out there who have been desperate for this release.
  3. The fact that Forge World and Games Workshop releases are so divergent in not only physical design, but also design philosophy that I find it interesting.
  4. I'm fed up of seeing people being told that they must be blind, either because they don't like the Chaos / Horus Heresy releases... or because they do like them.

It's also because the Horus Heresy stuff has actually excited me. So I'm going to add my own voice to the swirling mass of chatter that is out there.

Total geek swoon moment. Can't wait for the rest of 'em!

Firstly I need to get something out of the way right now... the Horus Heresy books are crap! They are badly written piles of turgid, fetid bollocks. The characters are two dimensional at best, but more often than not they're one dimensional as standard. They are formulaic, repetitive and totally predictable. In short they shouldn't be held in as high esteem as great literary works, like they are in some quarters of our hobby... however... like Star Wars, which is also crap, they are a guilty pleasure of mine. They are what I term 'Brain Break Books', books you can literally read with zero cognitive effort. So what if Horus is a patchwork quilt of a character, whose 'development' through the books makes no sense? His development is so badly written it actually happens in a montage... a fucking montage in book form people? I thought they only existed in 80's films? It doesn't matter though, because the child in me grew up wanting to read about the Primarchs and the Horus Heresy, and low and behold, Black Library went and did it! So to me it's never really mattered all that much that they're not Tolstoy!

Just one more pic because he looks so badass!!!

So with that caveat out of the way lets talk about that Angron miniature shall we? Simply put he's awesome looking and is better than other similar attempts out there right now. We've all seen the Kabuki Models not the Primarch figures haven't we? Kabuki's Knights of Legends range has got a fair few fans, they've even produced their own version of Angron. There's no contest for me though, the Forge World version takes the prize comfortably. But Kabuki were fulfilling a need that Games Workshop and Black Library themselves had created! Any way here, take a pause and watch this Forge World video about the development of Angron as a miniature if you haven't already:


The only question I have is, why the hell haven't we been buying these miniatures for years? To many of us in the hobby it just seemed really dumb that Forge World and Games Workshop hadn't got their collective asses in gear and got on it already. The popularity of the Black Library Horus Heresy range of books should have been more than enough to have convinced them this was a goer. A huge cash cow waiting to be milked to within an inch of its life... yet Kabuki Models got the drop on them by nearly three years, and showed them what an utterly spiffing idea it was. How the hell did that happen? Part of the reason has been a strange relationship Forge World has had over the years with Games Workshops full design studio, and part of it is to do with how cumbersome Games Workshop has had to become as a company.

You see they approach things very differently now to a lot of smaller companies. Games Workshop just can not respond quick enough to trends and new emerging markets rapidly. Why? Well because of the lead in times involved in making miniatures the Games Workshop way. They require far more OK's from more people before they can go to full manufacture, plus the substance they choose to make the majority of their miniatures in, plastic, doesn't have the easiest and quickest of turn around times. Then there is the simple truth that they are far too big a company to just run a couple hundred of something off and be ready for a global launch. They simply work to a much different scale. I was told by somebody once in their design studio that if they cocked something up they had to live with it for at least 5 years, if not 10. They said this not only focused the mind, but also meant they were becoming risk adverse. But, Forge World doesn't have these problems, if Games Workshop would let the shackles off and just trust them... Forge World could be a quick and nimble partner, able to respond to such markets far quicker than the parent company. But, it feels like the shackles have been on for the last decade or so, that the design studio has kept a tight leash on them.

I've wanted my Space Marine Jetbikes since... well... since Rogue Trader! Not a long wait then.

There's always been this thing that Forge World was for the more 'mature' hobbyist. Producing miniatures the serious collector and adults would supposedly be more keen to buy, although I think it's more like they produce products for the hardcore hobbyist regardless of age. While Games Workshops aim was to mass produce accessible miniatures, at reasonable prices. The thing is Forge World were clearly quite closely linked with the design studio's aesthetic decisions and were in effect a supporting premium product. Right now it feels like this relationship is changing with these Horus Heresy era miniatures being released. Especially at the same time as the Official Studio is releasing their Tonka Toy inspired Chaos miniatures. There is a clear design break between the two product lines as I see it, with Forge World going for a grittier, and as far as possible a more realistic look. They're still being dramatic, but its the animation in the sculpts that are leading to the drama. Meanwhile the Studio Chaos miniatures are clearly shooting for a more comic and outlandish look... and dare I say it quite a childish look, or perhaps a look designed to appeal more to children is a nicer way of saying it.

I don't like this. Looks like something you'd see in the Power Rangers... no that's not a good thing!

I've had a suspicion for years that much of Games Workshops designs have been aimed more and more at much younger audiences. Placing the new Chaos Space Marines next to the offerings of Forge World's Horus Heresy stuff will bring this into exceedingly sharp relief.Yeah sure, they're both Space Marine toy soldiers, but even the paint jobs are very different from the studio efforts. I feel like the shackles are somewhat off. I've felt the Warhammer Forge stuff was the beginning of Games Workshop giving Forge World more slack in their leash. But allowing forge World in effect to do Warhammer 30,000 is a big step. Huge! Games Workshop has allowed Forge World to provide niche product to support Warhammer 40,000 for the obsessive gamers amongst us, I once described Forge World as 40k for investment bankers. Lets face it those Titans remain out of most peoples grasp, but they did provide weapon options for tanks and kits available from Games Workshop without the need for us to whip out the green stuff and hone our converting and sculpting skills. In some respects Forge World has been used as a test bed for nifty ideas, a sort of miniatures hypothesis factory, Forge World release it and see if it works and people like... Games Workshop incorporate it into their mainstream products. It's a symbiotic relationship that has served both well.

Is it worth the money?... I don't know. But it looks cool.

The Horus Heresy is different, in a way it will be running directly in competition against Games Workshops stores up and down the land. Will they be selling Forge World tanks and Primarchs? Hell no! So this is letting Forge World run with something that potentially could be leaching sales away from their shops... that's brave, and I actually applaud whoever had the guts to let Forge World do this. So what do I think of the Forge World Horus Heresy stuff so far? Well Angron has gone right to the top of my wish list, simply as a miniature to paint and plonk on a shelf he's worth it. I don't care if I never deploy him on a tabletop in anger. The Cataphractii Armoured Terminators also look all sorts of splendid, and again are something that I personally would consider buying just to paint. The Fellblade Super Heavy Tank also has a smattering of cool, but the price is way beyond me at £155, just can't justify that sort of cash, ditto the £95 Typhon Heavy Siege Tank. But I am excited by them both as products, and that's a start. There are plenty of people super excited about the Scimitar Pattern Jetbikes too, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a hankering for a few of those to paint. I'll probably make do with one and go to town on turning it into a display piece.

Yeah so it's a Land Raider with a big gun... but that's cool... right?

But what of the official Chaos Space Marines launch? Well I'm going to big up Games Workshop here as well, because they've finally made a promo teaser trailer that doesn't totally suck, in fact it's not bad at all:


No true it's not the best video by a games company ever TM, but lets be fair here, it is significantly better than what they've done in the past, isn't it? Well I think it is, for the simple reason that it just shows the product in detail and gives you and idea as to what the hell to expect from the products if you pre-order them. Talking of pre-orders they've already sold out of the limited edition Codex, given my Sunday Sermon this week, I guess there will be a lot of disappointed fans! Now as I said this stuff has received a lot of mixed cometary, I think Miniature Tim summed up my feelings fairly well. I've said before that I've felt Games Workshop isn't really designing product for the likes of me anymore, this is the first set of releases that I absolutely 100%, hand on heart know was not intended for my demographic.

Probably the best of a bad bunch for me... but I'm not even sold on this.

So what do I think of the latest batch of shot for Games Workshops Chaos Space Marines? Well does it really matter what I think? If you like them then that's all that matters as far as I'm concerned. They don't appeal to me personally, but as I've said I don't think they were meant to. Kids will probably love them though, and no that's not a dig, because that's who these are aimed at now... and well, I guess there are plenty of big kids around too! It seems to me like Games Workshop has finally decided that its kids who they were after all along and that's cool by me. If they stick with it and see it through then maybe it'll work for them, because this awkward halfway house they've been trying to run for years now just wasn't working. They have no chance in hell of keeping everybody happy in the hobby, so why the hell should they bother. Pick a market and go for it! Wisely however, they've allowed Forge World to go for another marketplace, finally Games Workshop has unleashed their not so secret weapon, lets see if they can live up to the huge expectations they've now generated. Yeah I'll be getting the Primarchs, and maybe a few other bits and bobs to paint. I was never going to get any Warhammer 40,000 so maybe this way they'll entice me to spend money of their IP again. Is that a bad thing? Peace out!

43 comments:

  1. I couldn't agree more. Both on Forge World and the Chaos release. I hope it works out well, so FW might be let off the leash in the future.

    Too bad the whole Horus Heresy will probably be out of my price range, because it really looks good. Like you said, it looks much more grown up.

    It's a shame the new Chaos offerings are aimed as they are, since I do like the whole concept of Chaos in 40k. A friend keeps going on about 40k, so I'm thinking of doing a Chaos force with Strain miniatures, Antenociti tanks I'm planning on buying as Infinity terrain and some of the models I kickstarted with Dreamforge. An army with no gw miniatures, truly heretical for some ;)

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    1. I'm not so sure it is a shame. If that's the route GW want to go then those who like that style are in for a treat. It's a shame I don't like them, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who do. If you don't like the look and it makes you mad and angry at what GW have done to Chaos... guess what... it's time you quit and found a game you could like because 40k is no longer for you.

      The Horus Heresy stuff is expensive. No question. But one off pieces as painting projects I'll be able to stretch to. Anything beyond that, even a small force, is going to be beyond my means for some time. And even if it wasn't I'm not 100% certain I'd spend that sort of money on it.

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    2. Let me rephrase that, it's a shame for me personally. Wether it's a shame for GW themselves a question their accountants will have to answer :)

      I'm not mad or angry because I don't think 40k has ever been the game for me. Problem is that the game is king here. So I'll cobble together a force with models I do want to own and paint and I'll come up with my a little insane backstory. Not because I like the game of 40k, but because I like having a game with a friend and having a few laughs.

      And I know it's up to me to change that. The seeds of Infinity have been firmly planted and now that Fantasy is going on a decline I've been throwing around mentions of Helldorado, Freebooter's Fate and perhaps Confrontation in the future. But it's a pretty slow process with people going to uni etc, so the situation will likely stay the same for a while yet.

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    3. Yeah I assumed that's what you meant.

      As to slowly converting people to new games, do you mind me asking where you live? Because I know depending on nation and indeed areas within those nations different tactics can work to help convert people.

      All I'd say is if you've sewn the seeds for new games like Infinity, Dust Warfare, Confrontation and Freebooter's Fate or whatever, you have to follow that up. Run demo games, show people the models and lend them the rulebooks. Actually lending interested parties rulebooks is a surefire way of getting nerds into a game... we can't resist a pretty rulebook, it's a genetic thing.

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    4. I live in Belgium. In the province Oost-Vlaanderen (or East Flanders if you will) if we're being a bit more specific. Aside from that, are you planning an article about these differences in the future? Cultural differences are fascinating :)

      For demo games I still have a bit of painting work. And if I'm honest I'd like to get some practice with a friend first. If I mess up the first one I fear it might be difficult to get a second chance. But thanks for the tip on the rulebook!

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    5. Well that was the hope A_G, to do a series of articles on how things were in other countries. I mean I can give a sort of GB-centric view of the hobby, but I wanted to see what it was like in other parts of the world and do a series of articles on what I've found. Got snowed under though and haven't been able to respond to everyone who actually responded to my call for feedback. In terms of feedback from Belgium I had a few people suggest that they actually don't bother with the local gaming scene there, and actually nip over borders to where there are healthier scenes with more variety. I don't know how viable an option this is for you, but there were others expressing concerns similar to yours. So I guess if somebody actually took the first step there could be a pretty thriving and diverse gaming scene in Belgium.

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    6. Well colour me intrigued!

      I'm not very surprised to hear that to be honest. At the moment I'm limited to a very small group of friends as most people play 40k and I don't actually own a 40k army, just a few random units. But hey, we'll have to start somewhere ;)

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    7. As a fellow belgian (sorry frontline gamer for interrupting :-D), I can confirm your feelings A_G, for the largest part.
      However at several places there are small budding gamer communities. I live close to Antwerp and since GW opened their store the other gamestores are gravitating towards non-GW games. So I agree with FG, take your painted mini's, rulebooks etc...and show the rest of us nerds how cool that game is...and your started.
      I'm not that much of a gamer. I mainly paint and aspire a future golden deamon above all. But I'm part of the team that organises the biggest 40k/fantasy tournaments in the Netherlands(check out http://www.saints-tournaments.com) and actually this sunday we are getting demo's of flames of war/infinity/bolt action/dystopian wars/... because we want to organise more than only GW- tournaments. So keep an eye on it, and maybe you can enrich your gaming experience at one of our tournaments.

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    8. Thanks Tyr!!! :)

      Told you A_G. I've had a few Belgians express similar feeling to yours, and a few like Tyr actually say they're doing something about it. I wish you both the best of luck in your endeavours.

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  2. Ugh, Chaos. Ugh, Forge World.

    New rules mean new opponents and another jolt to the meta though, so I'm not complaining too loudly.

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    1. Not complaining too loudly!!!

      I can hear you whinging in Walsall all the way over here in south Brum. :P

      Forge World miniatures are fab in the main... although I can understand the complaints people make about the rules.

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  3. My Nurgle force is near enough 90% conversions and should I get any of these new models, it'd be treated the same, which, looking at how super non-denominational the sculpts are, will get the same treatment. Can't deny how well defined all the details are, just a shame the models are covered in the bloody stuff.

    From 2nd Edition I felt the hobby was getting too childish and i was a child back then. Bad guys look "bad" and cry out their "bad" intentions and are so silly, it's all 40K really. War is rape and torture and mutilation of women and children (And a whole slew of other foul topics.) and all the other horrible things one never hopes to see in real life, but 40K has none of this = obviously for children. But I still paint the figs, buy the odd new fig, etc. So I must still be a child too.

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    1. I know what you're saying here, but I want none of that in my 40k. I play the game to relax and have fun, not to be reminded of the horrors of war. I'm purposefully not playing a historical game - I'm playing in the GrimDark fantasy future. When I want that kind of horror I go to Kingdom Death.

      So if it's "Macho-macho-space-monks" versus "Cobra-Commander-cartoon-villains" I'm totally fine with that. Hell, I adored the Necron release primarily because we've been turned into proper Bond villains.

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    2. @Dai I've been pondering the points you've raised for a few weeks actually. Mainly after the furor my criticism of that 'rape scene' diorama brought.

      Namely the question I've pondered is this, "is wargaming the right medium with which, to tackle these issues". Truth is there's no easy answer to that question. In fact it leads into another Sunday Sermon I'm writing about why people play wargames.

      I'm on the fence, I think it very much depends on the tone of the universe when you're dealing with fictional settings. In say something like Dark Age I'm going to say those things might be appropriate subject matter... but only if handled properly. In others it'd be jarring to the vibe companies are trying to create, say Relic Knights or Twilight for instance.

      I'd like to see less He-Man and Power Rangers in 40k myself and maybe a bit more gritty realism in terms of imagery, and realistic looking weapons and vehicles of war. However, I'm with Ant, I'm not sure I'd want to go too much further than that with 40K.

      So time and place I guess, but if you want a more serious nd grounded game, with more 'difficult' slash 'mature' topics covered it's got to be 100% clear to anyone that Games Workshop isn't the place to get that, and most importantly never has been. Even during the heavily influenced by 2000AD days.

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    3. That's a Sermon i look forward to very much.

      Hopefully I wont be too hungover from the night before to write a response worth reading. :)

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    4. You and me both Dai... right now I have no idea where it is heading... which is both exciting and scary. I'm a bit of a planning freak and these series of articles are a bit too much like flying by the seat of my pants!!!

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  4. I'm one of the people who's been doing it to death, but a quick summary of my points:

    1) The larger models do look a little outlandish, whether or not they'll look any good depends on how you paint them and build an army around them. Then again I guess a model shouldn't have to depend on that before it looks any good.

    2) I liked the new Raptors.

    3) I hope the changes brought about by the new codex aren't going to make my current armies redundant.

    Unfortunately Forge World is and always has been out of my reach, so I doubt I'll be getting anything from there no matter how good the models look. I'll stick with The Horus Heresy from Fantasy Flight Games if I really want to play it!

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    1. It's not that they're outlandish that necessarily bothers me actually Matty... do you mind if I call you Matty? Any way, what concerns me is that it's moving away from what I term a fallen Marines, which is where I see Chaos Marines. Personally I'd like it if the main difference was the look and feel of the armour in terms of it being earlier Mk's. Yeah with a few embellishments. But that's just me.

      The new Raptors? It's not necessarily the look of them I object to, but more the poses actually. I think they're bad and clunky looking. Very poor sense of motion and the dynamism is lost in clunky arrangement, but that's what we've come to expect from GW miniatures now. High on surface detail, low on artistic presentation and finesse.

      Well going on past experience an awful lot of what you have will be redundant when it comes to the big things. The new big things will be better... you already know this... you've been a GW gamer long enough by now! :P Also there will be lots of new choices that while not necessarily making what you have redundant, will probably just be sexier.

      It will be interesting to see how it all pans out though won't it? Like you Forge World is a luxury I very rarely can afford or indeed try to afford when I'm flush with cash. Just one of those things.

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    2. It's been a few years since I've been called Matty, but yeah, call me whatever you like!

      I think with the move away from fallen Marines, which it certainly looks like they're doing... I think for GW it's no longer enough for them to say about Chaos: 'Like Space Marines... but bad guys.' I think they're trying to make them their own distinctive force in their own right. But that's probably alienating the people who got into them because they were fallen Marines. I guess they're still fallen marines, but as well as that we've got the people who choose to follow them (cultists) and the bi-products of spending 10,000 years in the Warp giving rise to machinery such as the Heldrake and Maulerfiend.

      I'm just hoping it's still going to be possible to do an army without having to rely on these new big models in order to do it; I like to buy models because I want them, not because my army will be useless without them!

      I'll be watching how this develops very carefully...

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    3. Well Matty I'm sure you won't be the only one keeping a very close eye on how things turn out. However, given past performance I'm certain you'll be needing a fair few new things to make your army work... as well as a few things you already have being made redundant!!! Just the way of the world I'm afraid.

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  5. I would have prefered if they had kept the jetbike looking like the proper original designs. They could have done some things with it but I have plenty of images of what the heresy era jetbiks looked like and that is not it. I do love the look of all those old armors and weapons and if I had any need for more marines they would definately be on the list but at the model levels GW gas people at now they would be like 1000 dollar armies for a nice unified look as opposed to the huge variance I would get with adding a couple of hundred dollars worth of them to my already overful battlecompany. Now they would add in to make an awesome first company though.

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    1. Yeah I got my copy of rogue trader out and looked at the original jetbike designs... there wasn't 1 single design though, there were 3 or 4 that I saw, and of course the original 89 jetbike miniature looked different yet again. Hopefully they'll do more than one type, as I too would like some of the original design elements in a jetbike or two. As to cost... quelle suprise... its GW and Forge World, and we all know GW inflation runs at twice that of Greece. :P

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  6. I think doing the primachs may be a mistake since if FW follow the fluff they'll be massively OP and if FW don't follow the fluff the fanboys will kickoff.
    Also sorry but the jetbikes are way too phalic looking.

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    1. Of course the Jetbike is Phallic looking!!! Didn't you know Space Marines were over compensating for something?!?! :P

      As to whether or not it's a good or bad idea, meh. For me its a good idea because they'll sell by the bucket load and make them money. If companies were stayed by rampant fanbois at the two extremes of the spectrum nothing would get made. lol.

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  7. I too am excited by the Primarchs release; about bloody time! I hope to get a few, purely for painting.

    I must admit to the guilty pleasure of reading those trashy HH books. They are almost as bad as a Song of Fire and Ice (aka Game of Thrones). It is a nice break between the heavier books I usually read, and I treat it as a nerdy men's version of a gossip rag.

    So, the new Chaos release. Never have I felt so apathetic for a release. All the models are, meh. Some are, in my opinion, embarrassingly bad (the Dragon with its anal gaping exhaust; really?). Big hit and miss from GW, at least from my perspective.

    As you said Frontline, it just seems like it is not aimed at us anymore. I wanted gritty, dirty, brutal chaos. Instead we got Saturday morning cartoon bad guys.

    On a similar note, where's your Infinity release review? I'm interested in your opinion of the latest releases, especially one model in particular...

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    1. I spend so much of my life reading Economics / Policy / Research papers and serious factual books that when I go to fiction I tend to want to go to the really trashy nonsensical bollocks. Yeah I've read some of the heavier stuff too, and I can lay claim to have read War and Peace... twice! As a dyslexic that's no mean feat! But the HH books are so bad they're good in my eyes. They don't pretend to be anything other than 'bolter pr0n' and I'm OK with that.

      As to the new Chaos stuff... yeah apathy is how I feel about it too. I looked at them and literally went "meh". So not interested one way or t'other!!! So yeah the fact that was my response tells me it is so not aimed at us mature (read old) geeks anymore. As to my comments on new Infinity stuff I'm not going to comment until I can do my usual comment on the statlines... and without the new book I can't. But I can guess at the miniature you mean.

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    2. War and Peace twice? Man, I hardly ever read something again, unless I feel it is the sort of book that has more to reveal in subsequent readings (I have read Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" more times than I care to admit..). I'm going to go out of a limb here and say that I think Tolstoy is a little overrated (*take cover*). I always preferred Dostoyevsky, for Russian novelists. In saying that, I read Tolstoy when I was younger, so maybe another read is needed?

      The Infinity mini is the Tohaa Diplomat. WTF is going on there?! Caption reads: "Oh no you did-ent!".

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    3. Yeah, well the first time I read it, it was really slow going. I'd read a few chapters, put it down and then come back to it a few days later. Took an age to read. So by the end of it when I thought "God, and people rate this?" I felt I hadn't sat down and given it a fair hearing.

      So a few years later I set myself the task of reading the damn thing in one go. No breaks, unless for sleep. I did it in just under a week. At the end I still thought it was a slog, and really inaccessible. But I guess I started to see why some would rate it. I myself prefer things a bit more... humane on the reader.

      As to the Tohaa Diplomats pose... yeah it's silly and I'll say so. I thought that's what you were talking about. However, I'll wait and see what her rules are like before judging. For all we known she could have a new special rule "ghetto chatback" in which case it's perfectly reasonable as a pose. However, the shavastii spec-op with the G-string pants? That, well its yet again veering towards the cheesecake alien. I'm surprised they haven't given some of the shasvastii the sci-fi third boob!!!

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    4. The culturally perceived quality of a book is directly linked to its inaccessibility and difficulty to read?

      Sometimes I think a lot of art is just meant to be good because no one really understands it.

      Onto Infinity...

      Are you talking about the Corax? I really like that model. The pose is a little silly, but I think it works. She actually looks like she could use that sword. At least she doesn't have her tits out?

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    5. Yeah I think its the Corax, I like the mini as a whole, but felt that the completely unarmoured midriff area with G-sting wasn't required and actually looks a bit weird next to the rest of it. Had she been all but naked I would have brought it as being part of her spec-ops ways. But to be heavily armoured elsewhere just sort of throws it as a miniatures a bit.

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  8. Amusingly enough, one of the first 40k minis I purchased back in the day was a Space Marine Chaplain on a Jetbike (this one: http://i.ebayimg.com/t/metal-Imperial-Space-Marine-Chaplain-on-Jet-Bike-OOP-Rogue-Trader-1987-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$%28KGrHqZHJDQE-nw!Fjy%28BPtr!UK1iw~~60_12.JPG).

    Personally, I like the new infantry models. They've reorganised the Chaos army long the same lines as a 'loyal' Marine list, which will help kids understand what each model does. I do agree, however, that the vehicle/monstrous creatures/whatever they're meant to be look a bit too wacky. Is the Helldrake a flyer with a pilot or some kind of autonomous mechanical creation? Madness.

    As for the 'limited edition' codex - WTF? Why a LE Codex? Why? Does it come with even more photos of models that don't really add anything to the book? Extra art? Extra backstory? What is the point, other than creating a false sense of 'specialness'?

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    1. The LE Codex is an interest sales ploy I guess. It does though smack of a company that needs a fiscal shot in the arm. Rather than one doing something for their fans. ;)

      The infantry aren't necessarily my thing. But then again I think a lot of GW's infantry is now overly fussy in all the wrong ways and the poses awkward and ill-conceived so I guess Chaos were always going to be my own personal bête noire.

      As to the changes to the Codex and army organisation... doesn't really bother or affect me, and I don't find it personally interesting. Although for those youngsters you mention it'll certainly be a help, so again it's a tick in the box to making their product more appealing to kids. So again, thumbs up if that's the way they're heading.

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  9. I was looking at the pictures of the Forge fiend a day or two ago when my wife (who knows nothing about wargames) walked by, looked at the monitor and said, "What's with the Pokemon?" Chaos needed a Dark Eldar style release, a complete re-imagining of the line They got a Necron style release, new stuff, but in the well worn track. New Chaos feels like a wasted opportunity; but some people like them and the Forge World stuff is generally cool (if pricy) and often much better scaled.

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    1. And all I can say is I wholeheartedly concur with your assessment Spiffy. But then again I guess you already knew that, right? :)

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  10. Am i the only one who noticed is going to be aval on iTunes store? Cause thats a huge deal, electronic version of the codex that are offical? If only it wasn't Apple, i don't let iOS devices into my home, let alone on my gaming table, but its an exciting development none the less.

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    1. No you're not the only person who saw it was going to be available on the iTunes store. It's just you seem to be the only person who thinks it's a big deal. Sorry, they've done it before, and those of us who have been playing games by other firms have actually been getting official electronic versions of our rulebooks for well... over a decade. Games Workshop are just playing catch up, and doing it badly!!! lol. It also has no bearing on the points I was making about design difference between the two lines and how it shows an interesting schism for once between GW and FW. But hey you've brought it up now! :P

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  11. I don't know if I should agree with you or not.... so how about both. The dragon is a bit over the top, it could definitely use less flash and the addition of a proper tail. The forgefiend I think looks just okay, although I do love gatling gun with skulls at the tip. I don't play/collect chaos but I think their design should incorporate more than just older style mk armor as they have done with mutations and spikes. All I heard after the new edition came out was how great looking the chaos models that came with the box were. Now everyone hates (too strong?)these new models.The new raptors, which I think look great aside from that junk hanging off each side of the jump pack. I don't even like the new primarch model, so what do I know? Well all I know is I will buy that new fellblade(after substantial savings)and try to get the head off the chaos techmarine for my Silver Skulls. On another note, that vindi/landraider doesn't do a thing for me, now I know why they took of the conversion guide off their website on how to make one. Actually I think now it is the whole old landraider, just looks too outdated to me, kinda like how some of new Forgeworld Mk armors look like they are from second edition. I just can't get my head around some of the old looking backpacks. There is a reason I keep my 2nd edition marines hidden away.

    Your analysis of GW and FW workings is interesting and reminds me of one of your older articles that was a favorite of mine. (something about how GW is like the Imperium {some favorite article huh? cant even recall the title.})

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    1. Hey look, I'm not out for getting people to agree with me. So more power to you if you like them. While I agree to an extent about Chaos Space Marines needing more than just the older MK armours, and yes I'd like to see some mutations in there I think they've gone too far with some of them and they no longer look like corrupted marines, which is what I view them as. Plus they've corrupted them from the wrong MK of armour. Sorry, it does bug me!!! :P

      While I can understand wanting to keep some of the older Space Marine mini's locked away. I mean Marines circa Rogue Trader were not that good looking. I think for me personally the Forge World stuff is a good solid re-imagining of that era of design, BUT bringing them bang up to date as modern sculpts. GW's universe is actually one of the few to have such a rich back story, so I think it's great they've finally decided to allow somebody to explore it in miniature and even game form.

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  12. Also, thank you for allowing anonymous comments. I suspect there are many like me who want to comment but not sign into some service to do so. That makes me sound lazy(or paranoid) don't it?

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    1. No I've always allowed anonymous comments, even though it can get a bit difficult to see where people are coming from sometimes. I'm pretty certain all the anonymous comments on my Blog aren't from the same individual!!!

      It's easier on all participants in conversations on this Blog if they take a name or persona so people can see where they're coming from. But, I totally understand that not everyone wants to do that, and I wouldn't want to exclude them from having a voice here, because often people will have something they want to add and say right there and then. I'm OK with that.

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  13. I have mixed feelings about the Horus Heresy line. While I think Angron and other infantery look good, I find the vehicles rather plain looking ans lacking in details. I mean the siege tank is basically the land raider design from roughly 25 years ago with an unreasonably big gun slapped on. I have a suspicion that many older gamers like this and similar models more for nostalgia reasons than for beeing an actually good-looking model. To me, they look even more toy-like than the recent GW chaos models, just in a different way

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    1. Maybe Yuggoth you are right about the tanks and vehicles. But, actually having seen some of the panels to the older pre-heresy vehicles and original Rhino kits I have to say they do look quite nice in the flesh. Also I've had at least one person tell me that in the flesh Angron is a 'minger'... that's not a very complimentary term! :P

      I'll wait and see what they're like in the flesh. However, I'm not really loving the new looking Chaos vehicles one bit. Just don't float my boat.

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