Sunday, 22 April 2012

Sunday Sermon: Conventions and trade shows are they a good thing!

    
    


Well yesterday I attended the 40th annual Salute Convention at London's Excell center. Just to be clear, I'm not a fan of this new venue, it's a pain in the ass to get to and shows up just how stupid our countries fixation is with having everything held in London... I'm not wanting to focus on the negatives today, but I feel I must do so just a little bit. You see I like trade shows of all kinds, I always have. For a number of reasons I guess, but mainly because they give me a chance to sample lots of new and exciting things under one roof. Whether that be computer games, comics, or wargames as is the case with Salute. So I normally love these sorts of things. They give me a chance to meet new people and make new friends. But yesterday being tasked with the knowledge that I only had one day from 10:00 to 17:00 hours to do all this made me feel really, really rushed. I really don't want to have a dig at any of the guys from South London Warlords because yet again they've put on an enjoyable and well run show. But... it wasn't for me! I think in many respects I found the day slightly counter-productive, primarily because it was a day, a single, solitary day. So if these shows are done badly there is actually a danger that they can be harmful.


Just two of the very nice people I met Hendrik and Werner.

Yesterday I had an itinerary all planned out on the map to make sure I saw everything I wanted too. I stuck to it pretty much, however I wasn't really able to enjoy the show as I would have liked to. I would have liked to have tried some demo games of various things but I couldn't because I wanted to see more of the show. I've been to shows in the past and stood at tables and run games for others and felt like I've missed out. So it was good to be able to walk round a show and feel like I was actually experiencing the show as it was meant to be experienced, from the punters side of the the stalls. However, I felt rushed at Salute 2012, I felt like I wasn't able to spend as much time as I'd like talking to the people I wanted to, or sampling the products I wanted to sample. If you're going to do a show, you have to do it properly and one day simply isn't enough time for me to have done the show properly, and I actually felt really bad informing some of the stall holders that I had to dash off elsewhere, if I was going to see everything I wanted to.

In short if anyone felt I was rude to them yesterday I'm sorry! I tried to give everyone as much of my time as I could, and it was really great to speak to you all and to meet some of you, and talk about either products you liked or indeed the products you were peddling. I hate feeling rushed, and I know I rushed through talking to some people and I'm really unhappy about that. Perhaps these sorts of show aren't designed for this sort of thing I thought. Then I remembered all the other sorts of trade show I've been too and I remembered how I've normally enjoyed them because I'd made a weekend or hell even a week of it. So that's when I realised the reason Salute didn't work was that it was a day long event. Had the people there been able to spread their activities out over 2 or 3 days I think it would have been a much more pleasurable experience for all concerned. I certainly wouldn't have felt rushed, Traders could've done more business and sold their product properly instead of rushing things.

One of the cool little Gruntz boards.

Salute felt like it was pelting along at 100mph and not many of you who I bumped into seemed to be enjoying yourselves. Once or twice I heard people complain that they could do with "having another day here". I missed out on things, I know I have, and for a geek and nerd like me that's really frustrating. So how does this compare to the experiences some of my American friends are having at Adepticon? Well they all seem to be having a whale of a time trying out new games, seeking out new products and just generally enjoying having 3 or 4 days to take it all in. GenCon too is just a much healthier show, with a lot more time to do what you want to do. They are proper conventions, not just a day long glorified bring-and-buy sale, which is what Salute felt like. I feel sorry for the guys who had clearly spent so much effort on their demo tables, like Twilight, the magnificent Freebooter's Fate table, Micro Arts Wolsung board or Robin Fitton on his nicely done Gruntz tables. All that for one rushed day of demo's? Just doesn't seem right to me.

I'm going to say that Europe deserves a little bit better than Salute. I'm glad Salute exists I really am but we need a full on convention nothing has convinced me more of this than trundling around Slaute yesterday watching all the rushed demo's and the scrums that existed at various stalls as people tried to grab what stock they could. It was uncivilised and I personally think Europe could happily support a full on convention, and if we had our own full on convention I would expect more traders to take it seriously and attend. I mean would you trek all the way from the States, Canada or even Spain for one day? Would you see the point? I know I bloody wouldn't! The hobby hasn't been healthier in my opinion in terms of breadth and depth of product at any previous point in its history than right now. So I ask the question, why hasn't the UK and Europe got a full on convention? Peace out!

66 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. No worries, thanks for pointing it out.

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  2. thanks for the review of salute it is a shame that it was held in London rather than a central location as going down for one day was too much for myself.

    I know what you mean with not enjoying it as much when you feel rushed as I do normally fall into the trap of nattering on and losing track of time especially when its something new trying to lure me in.

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    1. Well I've spoken to so many people north of Watford who have told me that the reason they didn't attend was because of where it was held. Just seems a shame because the most vibrant area for wargamers in the UK has to be the midlands, both East mids and west mids. Having a more central show I think would encourage more people to attend and might allow somebody to support a longer convention than just one day.

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    2. As someone who lives in Watford, I'm pretty fed up of having to travel to the Midlands for most (all?) of my wargaming shows, get-togethers etc. :-P

      I did keep an eye out for you yesterday, but I was only able to spend a few hours there this year, which was a shame, especially as I forgot my camera :-(

      To your main point though, I am a little jealous of the Americans and their multi-day events and would love to see something like that in Europe.

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    3. I'd agree, the midlands already has a huge number of shows and venues to attend. Its also quite difficult to get to without a car, you often have to go to London on the way anyway. Add to that London is central to the UKs travel network, and I'm pretty glad it was in London. I couldn't have attended if it was elsewhere, that's for sure.

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  3. That's a really interesting review - I haven't been tempted previously but this year, having widened my gaming horizons, this did start to interest me.

    If the scale (time and size through more traders) increased then it can only be a good thing, I would certainly make the effort to attend then.

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    1. I'd still advise people to go to Salute next year, as it's still a good convention to attend but I think Europe needs more than just a single day trade show. It produces the most wargames and some of the most popular wargames in the hobby and is probably the biggest market area for the hobby. We need a bigger show that's better supported.

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  4. I have to disagree to some extent. I think the Excel centre is a great location – far better than Olympia was – and better than my recollection of somewhere central like NEC. It's one of the reasons I stopped going to Games Day.

    I know what you mean about rushed, it did feel like things were happening at a brisk pace and stands were running out of stock quite quickly. Seemed busier this year than the last couple. Games companies will use their gaming boards at other events so I don't see that as wasted effort.

    If it were a multi-day event I certainly wouldn't go for more than one day – can't spare the time. Salute is enough for me, just wish it happened twice a year.

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    1. I couldn't disagree more with you over the NEC's location versus the NEC actually. The NEC is on the West Coast Mainline, one of the most connected train lines in Europe. It's at the heart of the countries motorway network AND has an international airport right next door. It's also just a better venue all round.

      I don't like the ExCel center and I hate having to go to there for anything. Always have done since when it was opened. Just a pain in the ass for anyone who isn't living in London or the Southeast. London just isn't a great place for convention centers.

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  5. I'm also going to disagree with your comment on the choice of location - I think the ExCel is a good venue (I will state that I'm biased as I live twenty minutes away) - moving the show out of London would be to it's detriment, not least because it's organised by a South London wargaming club and takes a large part of the year to organise. I do think they could do with perhaps shifting the date a bit: holding the event the same day as the London Marathon registration takes place means that the transport network into the Centre is already at capacity, making the journey there really unpleasant - although I've always enjoyed the sight of athletes and gamers looking at one another in bewilderment.

    I also agree that the event could do with being extended to two days: this year's was packed (over 5,000 visitors within the first ninety minutes) - it was difficult to see everything, the demo tables had to be effectively ignored if one wanted to see everything else on offer, and an expo of that size is slightly overwhelming at times. There's a certain stigma associated with war-gamers in that they're barely socialised and ill-mannered; ordinarily I'd go out of my way to dismiss that stigma but yesterday this trait was out in force - which was massively disheartening. Perhaps spreading the event to two days might allow traders and visitors a little time to slow down a bit and to see everything at leisure, without jostling and scrummaging their way to see things, as well as giving clubs and gaming companies batter chance to show off their products. That being said, I'm not sure how affordable a two-day event would be - I imagine it'd be good for traders as they could off-load more stock (and stock was flying out of there yesterday), but perhaps that'd be outweighed by expense of hosting the event and staying overnight. I'm not sure comparison to a US event is fair, the US is geared towards events like this and does convention centres particularly well - and more important affordably - I'm not sure that that economy of scale works as well in the UK.

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    1. I totally agree with your comment about ill-mannered, some of the people there yesterday had no clue. The cliche about smelling badly was in full evidence too – how people can smell that bad as early as 10am is beyond me.

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    2. Haha - yes, this was sadly also true :)

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    3. @Fulgrim, I'm not talking about moving Salute away from what it does pr indeed its roots... and part of that is that it should remain in London. I am however questioning why the hell the UK doesn't have a proper wargames convention like GenCon or a big tournament type knees up with show attached like Adepticon.

      You're right when you say the US does convention centers particularly well, and I agree with that statement. Trouble is we actually do have one of the worlds best convention centers here in the UK, in fact we have 2 in the UK that are in the worlds top 10. Neither are in London and both are in Birmingham. The ICC and the NEC.

      As to the ill-mannered behaviour, yes, I was also saddened to see grown me pushing young children aside to get to tables and shops. I even had words with what I can only describe as one fat sweaty cockney tosser about shoving a 14 or 14 year old lad out of the way at the Warlords stand. I did not give a flying fuck about being rude to that odious prick... I did get him to apologise though, after he'd been fould mouthed to me. I informed he'd better be more polite or he'd have good cause to bemoan our Governments cuts in NHS spending. He went rather pale when I said that to him.

      @The Dark Templar... I have to say that the stench coming from some attendees was utterly vile. I've joked about it in the past, but mainly I've defended people and said it's not that common, but yesterday my God it was embarrassing at times. I felt really sorry for one of the guys running people through some of the 7TV stuff at Crooked Dice with one of the guys, I could smell him from 10ft away in a well ventilated convention center... Jesus he stank! lol.

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    4. Ah, in that case then, I apologise - I misunderstood. And furthermore, I agree with your premise that the UK could easily sustain a larger event which was part trade-fair, part expo, part tournament - and I'm surprised that one doesn't already exist now you've raised the idea. I suppose the wargaming landscape in the UK is still largely fractured and bitty following the rise of interest in non-GW games - lots of smaller, individual events exist dotted about the country, but there's a definite lack of a cohesive event covering those differing games. You've put some ideas in my head for the kind of event I'd like to take part in, too.

      Is this something that you'd actually be interested in starting to organise? It'd be a massive undertaking, no?

      And good on you for pulling people up on their behaviour.

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    5. There were many minor cases of rudeness on Saturday, but you expect that wherever you have big crowds, it's just the way of things. But physically shoving a young teenager out of the way... I was NOT going to allow that to stand! It actually is something I'd be interested in organising, but there are a good many hurdales to getting something like this off of the ground in the first place. Not least of which is money and an idea that people want to buy into.

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    6. FG: You know there was a Gencon in the UK until 2008? Ran for several years as Euro Gencon, then as UK Gencon for several more years (Euro Gencon moved to Paris). Then the US guys who own the name stopped licensing out the Gencon thing to anyone outside the US.

      They kept moving the venue in the UK, which may not have helped. I went to one of the Loughborough ones and to the Manchester one, both held at the respective universities, and while the Manchester one felt disjointed, the Loughborough one was ace.

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    7. Heya Fiendil I was aware actually but it's constant shipping around the place put me off and I actually heard that it wasn't that well run so I never actually went. Beyond that I can't really comment.

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  6. So...I'm getting the impression that you felt rushed....

    Funny you should mention Adepticon.
    Adepticon is a TOURNAMENT. A big, massive tournament.
    Tournaments are for the fans, by the fans. I always thought 'Trade Shows' were for 'members of the industry,' such as distributors and resellers. Someplace for them to hobnob, make surreptitious deals and such.
    The middle ground, I guess, would be 'cons.'
    Comic-con, etc.

    I've never been to a trade show, and I'm sorry you were rushed.
    So...did you buy anything? See anything cool?
    All that's coming through here is that...you were rushed...
    :D

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    1. Those articles will be coming throughout the week SinSynn. I'm going to do a run down of the various stands I visited and let people know what I thought of what they had on display.

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  7. Hey there, was fantastic to meet you yesterday, and I didn't think you rude at all. Your recommendation about Freebooters Fate was top-notch, most fun game I've played in ages.

    It certainly was busy in there, I think I spent 3 hours just walking around all the stalls, poking my nose in to see what they were all selling, before then returning to the ones that I liked the most. With that much, like you, I think it would be great if they could expand it in future to make it an event getting towards GenCon or Adepticon or similar but for Europe. It wouldn't be too difficult to start adding in some gaming area for people to buy and play games in, bring along games, even run tournaments at the same time. I'd definitely make a weekend of it if they decided to move it in that direction. Europe clearly needs something like it.

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    1. Yeah it was good to chat with people. I had a lot of people come up to me throughout the day and say hi. A lot of people! lol. :P

      Perhaps the picture wasn't a good idea!!!

      I'm with you, Europe needs a big fat convention, and a proper one as well. Salute as a day show where it is doing what it's doing is fine. But the hobby in Europe needs more, and I'm not so sure that London is the right place to have it, or indeed the UK. But either way it;d be great to have something like that.

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  8. I missed you, i was at a stand when i spotted you. I payed for my goods turned and you had gone sorry. I played some demo games yesterday,and i must say the guys at the tables were not the best of help.
    Twilight was fantastic totaly different and very very nice. Activating characters by pulling stones from a bag. Then attacking and deffending with other stones in a cup.
    Mad but by far the best thing for me, other than gruntz at salute.
    And yep a day is to short.

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    1. To be honest I think finding good guys to do the demo's is a difficult thing. They're usually unpaid and don't get much help / training if any at all. So they can be a bit hit and miss, but I'm not going to lambast them for having a go at it. I'm certainly really grateful to the guys that took the time to speak to me about stuff.

      As to Twilight... it was actually a recommendation from Hendrik at the Freebooter Miniatures stand. Really interesting little game and it's one I'll take a further look at that's for sure. It's unique and that deserves closer inspection, could be unique and good or unique and rubbish!!! :P I'll have to give it a closer look to see which it is.

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  9. I wish I'd have known you were there - it would have been nice to thank you personally for your kind comments....
    David (dwartist)

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    1. Yeah it would have been good to have met you. Were you working on any stands?

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  10. If this sort of event was moved further up the country, what about the gamers down in the south west?
    That would make it even further to go and a lot of people wouldnt.
    I met LOADS of gamers from down the SW UK, they seemed to be there in force!

    As for it being more than 1 day, I can see pros and cons.
    Pros as you have explained but, cons include peoples free time (not everyone can spare 3 days), Money (staying in a city isnt cheap) and 'too much of a good thing' (people lose the excitement and get bored half way through the second day. Seen it so many times)

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    1. An event being more than 1 day doesn't mean you have to attend more than 1 day. I've been to conventions that are a week long and only gone for one day. It actually means more people can find the time. I'm also not suggesting they move Salute away from London at all. It has it's roots there and that is certainly where it should stay 100%, what I am sauong though is that Europe is a big enough market, and it certainly dwarfs the states industry wise and sales wise so I think it could stack uo.

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  11. Doesn't Antwerp have a big miniatures con? The UK has Games Day, lots of countries don't have that anymore or whatever GW's official tournament at Warhammer World is called. The UK is also a lot smaller. People complaining about traveling from Watford or whatever, sounds pretty hollow when people in the States travel 11 plus hours for a convention. I know people that traveled from Vancouver to Chicago for Adepticon. Ignoring the energy consumption, that seems a lot farther away than just Watford...

    If people want a better con, they have to put in the time and effort, not just complain on the Internet.

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    1. No people were complaining about braving the UKs shoddy public transport service from the north of the country, Newcastle, Manchester and Sheffield being some of the cities I heard people grumble about travelling from, to get to an awkward part of London for just a 7 hour show... on the same weekend the London marathon is held. I agree people do have to put in the time and effort and that's why I'm starting to ask questions. I'm also not just asking about it on the Interent, in fact I've already started looking at venue costs and have raised aneyebrow about the use of the ExCel center.

      PS. Your comments yet again come across as snide digs, so I think I'm filing you under the paper hat category for now.

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  12. Agree with much of what yo say. Salute was so huge and busy this year that I didn't feel like I managed to do the show justice. I as rushing around so much I barely tried any games, struggled to idly browse stands and had to focused on getting what I wanted shopping-wise. I didn't do the demonstration games justice at all.

    I would think Salute is so big now that it would work well as a 2-day event.

    As for location, I think ExCel is big and faceless but is better than the Oylmpia (though I only went there once). Travel isn't too much of an issue for me personally as I'm in London and have my parents within striking distance outside.

    Having said that, there is nothing else like Salute (Games Day excepted), so I still intend to go as often as I can.

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    1. Yeah I'll still be going to Salute because on the whole I still enjoyed it. Just think we could do with 'more' as it were.

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  13. Well I would say that Salute has been 40 years in the making to get to where it is. It really does feel like a big shopping trip a lot of the time and I'd agree about feeling too rushed to talk to everyone properly in the 7 hrs available. I did have a good day though.

    I'm not convinced adding a second day to the event would necessarily work for them bearing in mind anyone staying for both days and all the traders/manufacturers would have less money to spend by virtue of having to fork out a nights accommodation and food in the capital.

    That said, there are already a couple of shows growing in the UK that are along the lines I think you're thinking of; Brum Games Expo and Toy Soldier, not to mention Triples at Sheffield. The trouble is they don't have the international "pull" that London does, although Brum Games Expo should fare better when it moves out to one of the hotels at the NEC next year. Will European manufacturers come to them? We'll see I guess... Maybe they would if they were asked? A little front goes a long way...

    Sorry I missed you yesterday, I kept an eye out but it was hellishly busy...

    PS Re: hygiene, I wish some people would learn to do the decent thing and pack their bag with some shower in a can. It's a con, it will get hot, be prepared and deal with it!

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    1. Honestly I think us Brits over estimate the 'pull' of London. In fact London actually puts some companies off attending such conventions because of the associated cost with London. I know this because I had to decide not to send delegates to two international conferences and the two I chose were Paris and London due to cost... ironically everyone in the industry did the same and those two conventions in London and Paris are all but dead now. Most nationas capital cities are massively expensive, hence conference centers in most places being away from big expensive cities.

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  14. As ever, you've put a really interesting post together. I very much liked the old Olympia venue for Salute up until 2005, but I've got used to Salute being in the Excel. As a venue, I think it’s very good for people in the South East. However, it's not ideal for someone in Glasgow, Newcastle, Plymouth, and so on. I feel deep sympathy with people in the North, Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall, etc. making the long trip for the one day.

    I would agree that extending the show to a second day would be a good idea – that happens at Derby, Reading and Sheffield. The Sundays at those shows seem to have a very different atmosphere to the Saturday which is quite fun.

    I also agree that in an ideal world a UK or European equivalent to GenCon would be fantastic. It would take a huge amount of organising and I anticipate that the main difficulty may well be that such an event is going to be outside the financial resources (for the venue deposit, site insurance, etc) of any single club. But as a dream and perhaps a goal, it’s a great idea.

    Thanks again for a great Sunday Sermon and a splendid blog.

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    1. I don't think it's a club thing. You'd need the big boys in the industry to pull together to agree to it and you'd need a water tight business plan to make sure that you were able to pull the punters in. However, the benefit of such a venture for all concerned might outweigh the initial costs... however, I'd bet the first few years would run at a loss, possibly big losses.

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    2. Agreed. I think you're probably right. I talked with a couple of friends about your post last night and we agreed that any club, or clubs, would struggle to have the co-ordination and resources available. Which, as you mentioned, does leave the industry pulling together to sponsor and support such a show. I'd anticipate that in the current financial situation, a significant project of this sort isn't going to be high on the agenda for most industry big-hitters. Time will tell. Thanks again.

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    3. Clubs can't really do this sort of thing without companies with resources committing to making them work. Can I see that happening... actually yes I can, if they cans see something in it for them too. Like a lot of things in life it's about pitching them right.

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  15. Sorry I missed you - I would have liked to have introduced myself.

    Maybe next time.

    Tony
    http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.co.uk/

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  16. I had to travel over first thing on Friday morning so didn't see your post featuring your mugshot otherwise I'd have hunted you down at some point.

    I found myself running around like a blue arsed fly for much of the day. I hadn't really given much consideration to whether the rushed nature was right; I'd just accepted it as the norm for this type of event. I didn't get the chance to speak to half as many of the stall holders as I'd have liked to, didn't even attempt to take part in any of the demo games and found that I was dragging myself away from admiring some of the tables because of the limited time available. I kept popping back to the Bushido stand but never managed to get near it; it seemed to be permanently busy and disproportionately small given how popular it proved.

    In terms of having longer events, from a personal perspective, it'd be great; seeing as I have to fly over I have to spend a couple of days in a hotel so it wouldn't increase the cost and would reduce the time constraints of the event and the associated problems.

    I'm not a massive fan of the Excel; getting from central London to the Excel on the DLR is a bit of a ballache, if you're staying nearby overnight there's a surprising lack of places to eat and, whilst there are a fair few hotels, they seem to be booked up well in advance so there isn't actually that much choice (the marathon might have had a bearing on this). My only other experiences of shows and locations are the NEC which has the advantage of it being really easy to get back into Birmingham (and for me is probably easier to get to as I can fly to Birmingham) and Varpnartak which was held at York racecourse. I'm not sure York racecourse is the best location by a long stretch but Varpnartak was really enjoyable and had a very different atmosphere to Salute.

    I'm sure there's room for another big event in England/Europe and whilst I really enjoy Salute there are definitely things that could be improved upon/lessons to be learnt. Pull your finger out; I'm fully expecting to be attending Frontline Gamer Con 2013! :)

    And finally, rude and and/or stinking attendees. On both counts it didn't seem as bad as previous years and events; there were a few pricks pushing and shoving excessively, particularlly around the Forge World stand but I didn't think it was too bad and I didn't find the smell anywhere near as bad as I recall Games Day being a few years back; areas there were like walking into a wall of farts although yesterday I did come across a guy who smelt like he'd deposited something in the back of his y-fronts.

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    1. Yeah, when I talk to most people who have to attend international conventions people generally prefer Birmingham and the NEC / ICC over the London venues. On just so many levels but mainly:

      ease of access
      cost of attending

      It possibly wasn't as bad in terms of rudeness stakes this year as previous years, but I think much of those issues I saw would have been mitigated by having the event over multiple days.

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    2. PS where did you come from Hendie?

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    3. I didn't have far too come; just over the Channel from sunny Jersey where everyone knows each other, we're all minted and don't pay any taxes (I wish! :) ).

      It's a bit expensive to get over for these sorts of events and having to fly over limits the amount I can buy to whatever I can stuff into a bag but I still managed to spend a small fortune and it was nice to get away for a few days.

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    4. That's not too bad I guess, it could certainly be a hell of a lot worse. I guess for you though there's also the added grumble that expenses like flying etc. are better spread across more days so to speak. I'm glad you managed to come away with a bag of swag though!

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    5. I managed two bags of swag in the end; my mate was far too restrained and bought barely anything so I commandereed his bag space too.

      Thankfully there were no tears as Wayland took a healthy supply of Heavy Gear Blitz stock so I took a lot of that off their hands (I bought a starter set and then went back for more when I found I still had cash left).

      Micro Art Studios, Sarissa Precision and Antenocitis Workshop all found their stocks depleted as I bought enough stuff to make a good start on my Infinity board. Also picked up some more Infinity starter sets so as soon as it all comes together there'll be a lot of local gamers getting introduced to the joys of Infinity!

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    6. Awesome sauce!!!

      That's what I like to hear. I'll be really interested to hear your thoughts on Heavy Gear Blitz actually. I'm obviously smitten with it right now so I guess I might have my blinkers on a bit. Always good to hear what others have to say.

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    7. Thinking about it, I probably should have bought two separate starter sets for Heavy Gear Blitz as it's another one of those games that I'm going to have to rope other people into. In the first instance I might try and get some models painted up and leave them laying around seductively at one of our club meets.

      I think I might have made a slight cock up with my purchases in that I grabbed a Southern starter set and stuffed it in my bag. When I went back for more I grabbed more Southern stuff but didn't do it in any sensible sort of way; I just went with what looked the coolest meaning that I ended up with a Fire Support Cadre which I'd already got in the starter set, oops!

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  17. I would have loved to have gone, but as you say it's just too far to go for a single day. Having gone to the Excel both by car and by train, it's a pain in the ass if you're not staying the night (I have a soft spot for the Novotel next door).

    It's a shame the weekend makes shared travel an issue - clubs could organise car pooling, etc, but if you know the roads are going to be shot all to Hell you're unlikely to want to drive.

    In regards to needing something bigger - It sounds like you just volunteered.

    Frontline Expo 2013?

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    1. Also:

      Dammit, ninja'd on the Frontline convention thing by 7 minutes.

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    2. Just as a quick aside, we did a car share from our club in Nottingham. The roadworks on the M1 were a bit frustrating (wish they'd lift speed restrictions when no contra flow is in place and no one is working) but barring that we had a clear run there and back, including the M25.

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    3. Frontline Expo might have to wait until 2014/2015. Takes a long time to start organising such things.

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  18. That's a shame Salute is only a single day show. I've heard about Salute over the years and was quite tempted to go, though a single day outting is not really conducive to the costs of a plane ticket across the pond. :(

    I look forward to seeing what you've got to share with us over the next week or two on Salute 2012. I've been really interested in the prospects of Napoleanic and historical wargaming, though I'm really wanting to hear how the games work, have miniatures to study, and have opinions on the prospect before I take off on another endeavor. XD

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    1. Yes if you were coming from the States to Salute it'd be a big old waste of money. Part of me thinks that's why we don't see Privateer Press et al attending as it's just not worth the expense and they would really get to do a show properly and really push things.

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  19. Interesting - of course having 1 day there, even if it was insufficient, is better than not going at all!

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    1. Indeed, I'd rather there was something than nothing. But in the case of some store holders I wander whether they really got there money's worth out of it in the end.

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  20. Must admit I really enjoyed Salute yesterday. Sorry I missed out on meeting you there, would be good to put a face to a name.

    As to Salute, yeah it is far. I myself travelled down from Glasgow, but I also look at it to make a bit of a weekend break of it. My wife and I travel down on the Friday, see some of London. I go and be a geek on Saturday, while she does shopping and then from then on till Sunday it's more of London. Still that's me. I can live with the train journey etc.

    Yeah as was stated they could maybe see about moving the date, so it doesn't always coincide with the marathon, as not only does it mean the transport system is quite busy for the registration, it also makes accommodation more expensive as well.

    I haven't seen it said, though I apologise if I have missed it in my early morning state (late back from the London weeekend). There is already a convention based in Birmingham

    http://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk/

    It's a mixture of roleplaying, tournament and wargaming stuff, along with a bit of re-enactment and what not. I've never been, as it's always too soon after Salute, and therefore I'm skint by that point, but I'd really like to go one time, even if it's just for a day.

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    1. I also don't think it's the marathon they have to worry about. They clash with Adepticon and with the best will in the world if a company has to choose between attending Adepticon and Salute I know where I'd rather put my resources.

      I also know all about the UK Games Expo. I've attended it more than once.

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    2. Yeah Adepticon is a big pull. I've seen it happen, when our little local con here, for some reason decided to run the same day as Salute. Needless to say it was only the little traders who couldn't be bothered going to Salute that came that year, and it's since moved. Though I think at the same time, more European and UK companies come to Salute as it's cheaper to go to than Adepticon.

      Cool, just wasn't sure, though I thought you would. As I say I've never been, though I'd like to go one year, as I've heard it's good.

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    3. Adepticon has a big pull and rightly so. It's an exceedingly well run event and they deserve all the success they get. Could something similar happen in Europe? Yeah sure why not. I've started looking into the sorts of logistics required already. It's no easy task that's for sure!

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  21. Hi, I see your post here http://groups.google.com/a/googleproductforums.com/forum/#!searchin/blogger/contact$20blogger/blogger/XuANRMeYayQ/EelbJExfPR4J

    I have the same problem.
    How to restore blogspot blog?

    Thanks..

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I can't give you an answer I'm afraid as the feckless idiots at Blogger still haven't responded to me in over two months. I'd love to be able to offer advise but I've got none. Sorry.

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  22. no - just wandering around spending lots of money. I had taken the Antenociti Jet-bikes and Vipers I painted for Jed and spent most of my time not spending chatting to Jed and Tim near their stand and tables. Maybe next year....

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    1. No that's cool. It'd be good to meet some of the people who hang around here and other places online. If for no other reason than I enjoy chatting 'hobby' with people. :)

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  23. Pop over to Dublin for Gaelcon sometime. It's not anything like Salute so you'll come home with your wallet intact and gamed out.

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    1. Sorry buddy I must have totally missed this comment first time round. My apologies. Somebody I know actually wanted to go to Gaelcon because he has friends in Dublin. I've just never got round to it. I've had people invite me to Spiel and the one in Antwerp as well. Just never got round to doing it.

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