tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post5786938189058945407..comments2024-03-27T07:28:18.776+00:00Comments on Frontline Gamer: Just what the hell is a beer and pretzels game?Frontline Gamerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-30123786232869439342021-12-01T12:39:25.447+00:002021-12-01T12:39:25.447+00:00It is much easier to study innovative skills and a...It is much easier to study innovative skills and acquire a lot of items with the aid of the new world coins. They can receive the new world coins by utilizing the MMOGAH strongly. If perhaps web users utilize this site, they acquire more details about the <strong><a href="https://www.mmogah.com/new-world-coins" rel="nofollow">new world coins fast</a></strong> .Lytorurnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14668199182533250126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-5637948828343918072011-08-26T10:50:07.289+01:002011-08-26T10:50:07.289+01:00@James S, lol. I fully agree. Its been used as an ...@James S, lol. I fully agree. Its been used as an excuse for piss poor rules if you ask me, and thats just not on. Its a cop out. Also don't think pictionary or any other game was designed to be played while the consumption of alcohol and pretzels goes on. Hell yeah they were designed as 'fun social games' and that's fine but the consumption of alcohol isn't required for them to be fun... although it helps!!! :PFrontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-21135449296199392222011-08-26T01:13:38.926+01:002011-08-26T01:13:38.926+01:00Great article. You know, I don't think I'...Great article. You know, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use that term in real life, except maybe to describe party games. <br /><br />By that I mean not the sort of games we play as wargamers, but games like Pictionary, Illuminatus and the other Steve Jackson card games. In other words games designed assuming that the players are already at some social event and the game is either the excuse for the party or it's an activity at the party. So I guess I'd say video games like Guitar Hero and Mario Kart are also beer-and-pretzels games. They're simple, elegant, non-exclusive games kids play for funsies and grown-ups play for laughs. My non-gamer friends can play a beer and pretzels game, but would be bewildered and a little unnerved if I tried to get them to play 40k or D&D.<br /><br />So I guess I think that some games are designed as beer-and-pretzels games, but a beer-and-pretzels wargame seems like a contradiction. You can play wargame like that if you're already familiar with it, but you're not going to get a bunch of different work-mates at a party to just pick up 40k and play it like Pictionary. That's stupid.<br /><br />Therefore, anyone who claims that there are wargames designed as beer-and-pretzels games are, in my opinion, full of shit.beat roninhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01716307613961196056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-45484916692038996302011-08-22T13:06:32.565+01:002011-08-22T13:06:32.565+01:00@Purgatus on that I wholeheartedly agree. There ar...@Purgatus on that I wholeheartedly agree. There are great games out there that are designed to be fun, BUT and here's the important thing, they're still robust rule-sets that are well balanced and designed. I hate people using the 'its meant to be fun' excuse for any game that takes a hammering because of balance or rules ambiguities. If the rules aren't important why have them in the first place? Nope this 'beer and pretzels' phrase is becoming seriously abused in the hobby nowadays and I don't like being told my wargaming should come with beer and salty snack foods as standard!!!Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-35186604175834505772011-08-22T07:39:12.740+01:002011-08-22T07:39:12.740+01:00"I was what British people would call a '..."I was what British people would call a 'wanker' about it. So Battletech was not a 'beer and pretzels' game it was just that we had beer and pretzels game nights where we played Battletech."<br /><br />This exemplifies something that I have argued for a long long time. You can design a solid, well balanced and tight rule-set, and then players can play it as seriously or as light-heartedly as they want. Game designers who design their games poorly because they don't expect anyone to take it seriously will find their expectations met and exceeded.Purgatushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04434824912752472018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-33448055488564690602011-08-21T15:45:12.050+01:002011-08-21T15:45:12.050+01:00Agreed EastwoodDC its the bloody age old human pro...Agreed EastwoodDC its the bloody age old human problem of wanting to label and categorise things some we can compartmentalize things. I think games designers can choose to approach the development of a game from a certain standpoint, i.e. a fun game with humour or an in-depth game that requires careful consideration or thought... however its those playing the game who should be able to define the experience they want. <br /><br />Taking one of my current favourite distractions DKH:DR it is clearly a game that was designed with an element of humour and character to it, yet its balanced and has a nice depth to it and it allows the gamers to decide and dictate the experience they have. That for me is how games should be. I think Porky's article sums up the frustrations I have with the homogenization that the internet effects on use of language... but that's a whole different topic!!!Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-1383150325572584242011-08-21T15:34:26.590+01:002011-08-21T15:34:26.590+01:00I too have issues with the concept of Beer and Pre...I too have issues with the concept of Beer and Pretzels games, or for that matter Serious Games (which seems to be a new buzzword). Does a war game become any less serious if your your armies consist of orcs and trolls instead of soldiers and tanks? Or Battlemechs instead of Battleships? <br />It seems that the intention of the players, and maybe the physical presence of alcoholic beverages and starchy snacks, it the only thing that separates one from the other.Dan Eastwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14105563883467108602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-36773265946440073582011-08-21T10:13:27.070+01:002011-08-21T10:13:27.070+01:00Cheers MCT. I don't normally like winding up G...Cheers MCT. I don't normally like winding up GW staff primarily because I think they have enough shit to deal with anyway without me heaping more on their plate. However dumb remarks do get a polite rebuttal normally from me. I'm just, like you, not really comfortable being told how seriously I should take my gaming. That is a recipe for disaster for GW staff with me. Besides after the cost of buying a WFB army I'm not sure I'd have enough fund to buy the required amount of beer and pretzels to make the game fun... and even if I did I don't fancy dying young of the inevitable alcohol poisoning that consuming that much alcohol would bring!!! :P<br /><br />Yes people that was a dig at 8th ed!!!Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-57432403204390500102011-08-21T01:21:06.737+01:002011-08-21T01:21:06.737+01:00Great article, personally I think it's down to...Great article, personally I think it's down to the players to decide how seriously they want to take their games. I haven't come across the dreaded beer and pretzels term in any of my local GW's yet but If it does appear I will be asking for a full explanation as to the meaning of the term. I do take pleasure in making GW staff squirm occasionally.MCThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16255132534364037915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-69701139691792765062011-08-20T18:26:00.798+01:002011-08-20T18:26:00.798+01:00@porky an interesting article, cheers for posting ...@porky an interesting article, cheers for posting the link. Definitely good to see that I'm not the ony person who is concerned about the rise in use of the phrase, even if we are concerned for slightly different reasons. I too hate how we cage ourselves in with restrictive language but a common language or phraseology is sadly a inevitability of any walk of life... no matter how much I hate it. Still not sure what's wrong with the phrase 'fun game' which I used to use in simpler days. For me its the use of the phrase for defending poor product, by saying you're taking things too seriously or aren't playing it right somehow... poppycock!!! lol.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-13169267197805907442011-08-20T17:58:29.644+01:002011-08-20T17:58:29.644+01:00I wrote a post on it a while back too.
http://the...I wrote a post on it a while back too.<br /><br />http://theporkster.blogspot.com/2010/12/discussing-terms-1-beer-and-pretzels.html<br /><br />I've been uncomfortable with it as a term since I first read it - I don't think till that point I'd ever heard anyone actually say it.<br /><br />As with any term, I think there's the danger it will start to mean something even if it didn't before, and as you suggest maybe create dividing lines, and even push out individual experiences.Porkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00604351052444947490noreply@blogger.com