tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post3401097199418323040..comments2024-03-27T07:28:18.776+00:00Comments on Frontline Gamer: How can you tell when a business is in trouble?Frontline Gamerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-68018736052977837812013-06-19T13:52:34.080+01:002013-06-19T13:52:34.080+01:00Fantastic article, and one with which I agree whol...Fantastic article, and one with which I agree wholeheartedly. Myself, I have been buying much less Games Workshop than I have done in the past. The prices make me wince. My local Games club has until recently been almost 100% GW (the exception being the old timer grognards) mainly because the local games store is in fact and Art shop run by an enthusiast and stocking GW has helped keep the store open! I started taking boardgames to my local club (BSG, Dominion etc) as my codex was two editions out of date, played poorly especially with the massivly imbalanced introduction of aircraft, and I got some real interest - now there are people regularly playing all sorts, magic, boardgames, x-wing etc. RESULT! <br /><br />Whilst GW as a whole seem to be doing a piss poor job. There is one division which I feel deserves a mention simply because they are doing a wonderful job. I speak of course of Forge World. A division which engages with the customer and, for me this is the most important bit. Does things a bit differently. I think GW could learn a lesson from its' little brother.<br /><br />FW like GW is in the business of selling models. Instead of the never ending rules edition cycle (which I think is a bloody awful idea) FW releases campaign books, along with new and interesting models. Variant army list and some inspiring, if sometimes poorly written, background material. I've been playing 40k since it was released (good grief I feel old) but have only recently bought my first Imperial armour book (Taros 2nd edition) It has inspired me. Rather than just feeling cheesed off at GW for their insane business practices, high prices and attacks on the community. I want to build scenery, run a campaign play some games and yes, spend some money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-40016650349548302112013-06-13T16:41:46.808+01:002013-06-13T16:41:46.808+01:00Great piece. I come to your blog every so often no...Great piece. I come to your blog every so often not so much for information on specific games but for your insightful musings on the hobby as a whole. You're building an impressive blog sir!Mathijshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04024680960480538455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-3160020158327210182013-05-29T00:00:17.228+01:002013-05-29T00:00:17.228+01:00Great article and great debate.
My $.02 are simpl...Great article and great debate.<br /><br />My $.02 are simply this. I still enjoy a few of their games (particularly WHFB). I will continue to support them no matter how bad they are online marketing since I still like playing the game and think most of their kits are cool.<br /><br />GW's biggest problem is they are a mature company in area that is gaining enough new players to give them the growth needed. Companies like PP, Wyrd or Corvus Belli are early in their growth and stealing share from GW not from new gamers. In effect, in many ways GW is a victim of their own success. <br /><br />I really hope they don't go out of business because that would kill the community in the long run since no new product would kill the influx of new gamers (look at Confrontation.MGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18118359115813173719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-18322643963959815392013-05-07T10:42:10.113+01:002013-05-07T10:42:10.113+01:00Chris, yeah. It's an old story though. The rea...Chris, yeah. It's an old story though. The really interesting thing was that picked up by most business commentators was the fact that despite a bumper half year profits (almost certainly to do with the increased profits on Finecast and so sweet licensing deals) Mark Wells still left. A number of business analysts all asked why this was the case, he hasn't turned up elsewhere either, so he didn't jump ship for a better job. I think a lot of people are waiting to see the 2012/13 FY figures in full. Could make for some really interesting reading.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-64631456449549427362013-05-07T10:28:09.777+01:002013-05-07T10:28:09.777+01:00@Xen3, how do you know I've never had to make ...@Xen3, how do you know I've never had to make a living selling toy soldiers? Simply put you don't. For what it is worth I funded my university education selling toy soldiers, either via working at shops (an independent at first, and then the local Games Workshop) and also selling fully painted armies to collectors. For the record I've also helped 3 independent stores here in the UK recently re-write their business plans after GW changed their trade agreements and heavily reduced the amount of stock they could buy. So please do not presume to know my level of involvement and understanding.<br /><br />Plus where the hell have you been for the past two decades? Have you not seen the amount of YouTube videos and comments on forums from independent traders lamenting GW's attitudes towards them? Seriously? I'm only asking because there is a link in this article to one such video, you'll find many more by others as well. Right now a lot of independents are having to work out exactly what GW's latest restrictions on free trade will mean for them. Especially as the local officially branded stores seem to not be operating under the same restrictions of trade... oooohhh... hang on, that's against the law here in the EU. Hmmm. Yeah great company GW, always looking out for the little guy... SO THEY CAN STAMP ON HIM!!!<br /><br />@Chris, there's little point. I was once told the blind might not be able to see, but they find a way to comprehend. Yet those that refuse to look will always stay ignorant... if you catch my drift.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-27387078989137403052013-05-07T04:56:09.410+01:002013-05-07T04:56:09.410+01:00I can post comments from friends who run their own...I can post comments from friends who run their own mini companies if you like :) And there are plenty of rants on youtube from retailers :)Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01885289270015756552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-34659728517841756262013-05-07T04:53:48.935+01:002013-05-07T04:53:48.935+01:00They can do no wrong
http://www.standard.co.uk/bus...They can do no wrong<br />http://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/fightback-games-workshop-on-a-winner-as-profits-rise-8457217.htmlChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01885289270015756552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-7694877417177683162013-05-07T04:01:20.277+01:002013-05-07T04:01:20.277+01:00I shall reply on that post... And yes zero about i...I shall reply on that post... And yes zero about it is surprising.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01885289270015756552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-10827247358001116722013-05-07T01:07:12.630+01:002013-05-07T01:07:12.630+01:00It is so interesting to see all the hate for GW fr...It is so interesting to see all the hate for GW from people who have never had to make a rent payment or buy food form selling little spacemen. Xen3https://www.blogger.com/profile/14565398230093567349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-43851028482287321872013-05-06T20:16:44.796+01:002013-05-06T20:16:44.796+01:00@SandWyrm, I think you misinterpreted my comment, ...@SandWyrm, I think you misinterpreted my comment, I wasn't saying GW games from the early 90's weren't well written and well designed. On the contrary they were, I was just saying that some of the power creep accusations leveled at the time, at units like the screaming bell, weren't done to shift miniatures, but were actual genuine honest to God mis-steps. Many gamers at the time attributed 'malice of forethought' to such issues, I don't think that was the case at all. Although having seen the sales spike of such units, they certainly appear to have learned from the experience.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-61375432333698670112013-05-06T20:10:08.410+01:002013-05-06T20:10:08.410+01:00FG, I think you're forgetting just how badly d...FG, I think you're forgetting just how badly designed most tabletop games in the 80's and early 90's were. GW's designs really were superior to almost everything else that was out at the time. Faster, simpler, and more fun was what they were known for. It drove their success.<br /><br />But GW stagnated around '98, ceased innovating, and now they just soullessly pump out plastic without bothering to really create anything new in their games or universes. Part of that is the loss of the Specialist Games, as that was their experimental playground for concepts they later folded into the games and fluff.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-9259072002860294132013-05-06T15:46:39.912+01:002013-05-06T15:46:39.912+01:00Thanks for your thoughts again Chris. I have indee...Thanks for your thoughts again Chris. I have indeed seen the news about their Specialist Games, and I've added my own thoughts to that particular discussion today:<br /><br />http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/monday-musing-specialist-games.html<br /><br />Still, I think I have a more rounded and realistic view of that supposed injustice. Seem in the broader context of their business... well, it's understandable I think. The lack of communication while regrettable, is certainly part of GW's modus operandi now isn't it?<br /><br />As for pushing customers away, is that really what is happening? Or is it that as we grown up they can no longer keep us engaged with what it is they produce? Perhaps it's a bit of both, I'm certainly willing to see it as a bit of both, but other things I've grown out of I still can appreciate for what they are. GW and their products however are rapidly losing any nostalgia 'sheen' and love that I had for them. Why the hell is this? I don't profess to understand my feelings towards them myself, and I'm not too sure going all psychoanalytical on myself to find out why would be interesting or fruitful. So I'll not be bothering.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-54179483510156858692013-05-06T15:33:46.337+01:002013-05-06T15:33:46.337+01:00I am angry? Nope. I think frustrated would be more...I am angry? Nope. I think frustrated would be more the mental state I feel over this all, that and actually disappointed. Maybe GW were always like this. But when you consider the Tradmark and IP infringements they've had to fight in their past, you'd hope that somewhere imbedded deep within their own DNA would be some common sense around this issue. Alas that doesn't seem to be the case at all.<br /><br />As always though I'll continue to talk about other things in the industry. You're right to an extent, if people find other things to engage with GW will become irrelevant. I'll continue to talk about the good and the great things in our hobby. The things that excite me and make me happy, but when the biggest player in our industry does something dumb... it'd strange for me not talk about it surely. So in a way the amount of GW content that ends up on my Blog is a direct result of their own idiocy!!! :P<br /><br />Perhaps it'd help if they could get all their 'dumb' out of the way annually in one week. Perhaps I ought to suggest it to them.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-62961373708585707822013-05-06T15:28:22.743+01:002013-05-06T15:28:22.743+01:00@Aeria_Gloris as I've said before... it's ...@Aeria_Gloris as I've said before... it's not my fault you're bankrupt!!! Well, maybe just a little. But I accept no liabilities. I'm glad I could be of service. ;)Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-84319950987654713742013-05-06T15:19:55.243+01:002013-05-06T15:19:55.243+01:00@SandWyrm, I know a few accountant types who think...@SandWyrm, I know a few accountant types who think that the GW accounts always make for 'confusing' reading. They have a knack of double reporting good news within their reports, although I've personally never seen double reporting of figures or anything like Enroning going on. Like you I think they're just doing the smart thing with these computer game licenses. Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-50415161891110463512013-05-06T15:17:44.269+01:002013-05-06T15:17:44.269+01:00Slowly winning people round? I like it. You sound ...Slowly winning people round? I like it. You sound like a gamer after my own heart. My nickname round these parts is games pimp. I've pushed so many new games in my area that in some quarters I'm hailed like a folk hero and in others (normally the partners of those who view me as a folk hero's) I'm nothing short of a villain. Some local GW store managers also view my name as mud!!! lol.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-11549014489529882132013-05-06T15:15:05.091+01:002013-05-06T15:15:05.091+01:00I think that much of what we attribute as 'by ...I think that much of what we attribute as 'by design' from the early 90's era GW were more happy coincidence that they learned from. Even possibly the screaming bell... although I too had my suspicions at the time. :P<br /><br />I mentioned in a comment on my specialist games article today:<br /><br />http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/monday-musing-specialist-games.html<br /><br />That I think most of the Specialist Games hark back to a time when Games Workshop actually viewed their games as their key products, and in many respects it was the quality of the game that was their focus. The likes of Rick Priestly and Andy Chambers wouldn't have had it any other way. That focus has shifted so tha their games are now simply just a justification for the massive volumes of miniatures they want us all to purchase. They no longer care about their games, as long as they ensure you need to buy a megacrapton of their miniatures.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-28155596236120847592013-05-06T15:09:15.910+01:002013-05-06T15:09:15.910+01:00SandWyrm that's a very good definition actuall...SandWyrm that's a very good definition actually! Might have to use that myself. GW does a lot of things wrong for me, but it really is this lack of communication and more importantly the fact that they only want to transmit their thoughts and not listen to those of their customers that totally pisses me off. My biggest gripe.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-65066000712736625542013-05-06T15:07:29.519+01:002013-05-06T15:07:29.519+01:00@SandWyrm... well said. That is all.@SandWyrm... well said. That is all.Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-10824394174952109182013-05-06T15:06:11.844+01:002013-05-06T15:06:11.844+01:00@SandWyrm, I'm not too sure GW are doing every...@SandWyrm, I'm not too sure GW are doing everything they think they can do to discourage the online 40k community. It just sometimes seems like it. :P For instance I think they have been given more than enough ammunition, if they so wanted, to have nuked both Warseer and Dakka Dakka if they wanted. That's not to say their inept solicitors haven't tried of course. But I wouldn't know if they had or not. I think though like you I believe GW do want to return to 'heir' glory days of the 80's and 90's, when yes they controlled the message within the hobby pretty much totally. It certainly wasn't our hobby's glory days in the wider sense though... I think those are happening now. It is though, as you say, their inability to leverage the strength of loyalty they once elicited from their fans that is the most baffling and frustrating aspect of all these issues... I guess ultimately the company is just too stuck in its ways to ever really truly change. But is it big enough to behave in this way and still survive? As always time will tell. Frontline Gamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110901356802705087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-41164139490552274112013-05-06T05:33:24.381+01:002013-05-06T05:33:24.381+01:00Angry, SirAngry? :).
It is quite possible to e...Angry, SirAngry? :). <br /><br />It is quite possible to enjoy tabletop gaming w/out GW. The whole issue of their behavior disappears when enough people find other tabletop games to scratch their itch, no? <br /><br />One strength of your blog is exposing people to alternatives, and not just tabletop games. Let GW be dead to you. You have more interesting things to say than pointing out GW corporate stupidity. Say those interesting things, and let the stupidity speak for itself. We all hear it already, whether we like it or not.<br /><br />Glad to see that you're blogging again. Stay strong.G Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00180174897038108755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-33366973339199679162013-05-05T22:53:13.886+01:002013-05-05T22:53:13.886+01:00Yep. That company sucks. If they went under it wou...Yep. That company sucks. If they went under it would be interesting to see how the new owners would handle it. Licence stuff out to other companies? Run it themselves? What would happen to the shop network? Both a blessing and a curse would it just die? That would be interesting because I doubt anything in the UK would replace it. You would just have to hope they had the sense to get an intro set into retailers to serve as the seed to get new people in and properly leverage video game launches and the like.<br /><br />You will have probably seen the death of specialist games. The models are not being restocked and most have disappeared this week. This included the forge world models and forge world game as according to the staff in forgeworld I've talked to they were told to do this by the parent company and it was all decided earlier in the year. I almost ordered a set of epic models until I saw the prices and came to my senses.<br /><br />That alone could be picked up as a case study in how not to do things. They have added to their legion of angry customers by simply not giving a warning. Now I know they have shut down communication avenues because they don't like getting comments from their public, but still I'm sure some people would have got the message. As it was people will now never complete armies, teams and the like and forever resent GW for not giving them x months warning.<br /><br />Still there has been some interesting commentary about it. Leaving aside flat sales in an expanding market and a falling user base, many people have pointed out that by abandoning the less profitable side games they have allowed companies to gain footholds in their market and expand to positions where they offer viable alternative to their whole range. So a short term profit boost, long term added to their relative decline. Ironically through a lack of control of the market...<br /><br />So I for instance have gone from being a GW gamer for all my non historical needs (lets not discuss warhammer historical here, another bat shit mental decision and execution), though I confess the warmaster system is everywhere there... basically playing a variety of GW games, now I play Dwarf Kings Hold, Epic with a lot of other companies models, Blood Bowl with no GW models or even board and dice, dreadball when I can face seeing those horrible models (I have started doing up some alternatives using blood bowl esk stuff, yea gods I hate those restic clean up hours), God of Battles (yes Jake T is having an unhealthy influence on me, here is hoping rulebook layouts from Mr T improve in the near future) and so on. And all those games have hooked into other companies very effectively. Whereas my default behaviour was checking out the GW stuff, now it is look anywhere but. Ok I know they want only tweenagers customers, but how did they manage to make me bitter and negative about them at the same time? When a relative says there kid likes toy soldiers I make damn sure they ditch GW in a hurry.<br /><br />Something else to consider, maybe with the advent of cheaper 3d printing they think the writing is on the wall for the model business. And so only want high volume plastics and a pristine IP to get them computer game revenues and any other avenues they think up.<br /><br />But anyway, stuff 'em. How hard did they have to work to get someone who has played their games since Adeptus Titanicus to actively dislike them? Pretty hard, but they succeeded.<br /><br />Final note I was amused by the recent Rick Priestly interview comments about the different styles of management and what the changes in the design studio relationship with the marketing side of things led to.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01885289270015756552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-69716411288934628522013-05-03T07:51:07.391+01:002013-05-03T07:51:07.391+01:00If it's any comfort, you convinced me about a ...If it's any comfort, you convinced me about a year and a half back.<br />Not in the sense of "don't buy gw, they suck" but more "Look at this little game. Look how nice it plays, what Corvus Belli/Freebooter/... does to win new customers".Aeria_Glorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08809554922625492683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-80952000727018067812013-05-03T01:51:15.210+01:002013-05-03T01:51:15.210+01:00And I totally see your point FG. That's why I...And I totally see your point FG. That's why I've been slowly winning my mates over to Spinespur, and Mecha Front, and Warzone, and a bunch of other games. I don't want to be responsible for my buddy buying four more dark lances because he hates my land raiders. I'd much rather be responsible for my buddy buying a Brotherhood army to come smash my Cybertronics. Yeah, there's a couple buddies I haven't gotten games in with because they're not switching. So we paint. <br /><br />Oddly enough, between my blog and all these new games coming out, I'm playing more right now than I have in years... just not with Helbrecht and the boys in black. Not saying it's the right answer (in fact I regularly have conversations with Big Jim of Deepstrike Radio on the moral and ethical implications, cause we're nerds like that), and I'm not telling anyone else to do it/condemning anyone who still plays. I'm just saying you've got to make the choice you're comfortable with, and live with the ramifications of that choice. Second Class Elitisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15070154509210557758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1448296907784874327.post-4435417021818577662013-05-03T01:33:36.931+01:002013-05-03T01:33:36.931+01:00Licensing income was around £400K in the last half...Licensing income was around £400K in the last half-year report, and £2600K in the year before that. Not enough to take them from profit to loss in its absence, and unless they're Enron-ing their numbers, they're doing just fine (profit-wise) even with the YoY licensing drop.<br /><br />So I'd say they're just doing the smart thing and accepting the easy money. THQ was probably just more of a wake up call than a crisis.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.com